Mom out-of Joanna away from Wales, wife from Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth
Following the my personal post on the youngsters from Llywelyn Fawr and you can Joanna and also the solutions they acquired, We featured once more from the genealogical pages about Gwladus Ddu. While it is real, once the multiple genealogists mention, you to on absence of particular proof for some reason, the identity of mommy of Gwladus Ddu need will always be ‘unknown’, I discovered you should not change my completion one to their mommy try Joanna rather than Tangwystyl.
She remaining no issue because of the Alexander II
That subsequent provider about the students is the haluavatko Vietnam-naiset muuttaa Amerikkaan? after the conceptual in the ‘Kings and you can Queens regarding Britain’ an authoritative book, authored by Oxford College Drive, page 106:
‘Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, b.1173, son regarding Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and you will Marared, daughter out of Madog ap Maredudd; acc. east Gwynedd 1195; hitched Joan, illegitimate daughter off King John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; passed away 11 April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
Earliest, let me shell out tribute to help you Sharon. Their unique search getting ‘HBD’, ‘Drops the Shadow’ and ‘The latest Reckoning’, accomplished up until the advent of the web, is actually really the. Virtually everything she’s written in one trilogy stands romantic examination today.
To show that it’s just me personally you to definitely thinks very, i want to offer one to genealogist that is a good partner out-of Sharon: “I am really partial to Sharon Kay Penman’s books. While they aren’t purely biographical, I believe warmer relying on their unique work to ‘submit the newest blanks’ (given the level of research she however added to their own guides), compared to in reality citing certain genealogical supply that i came all over inside my search (I’m sure most of us come across supplies that way). In order to whoever has not even realize her really works, I would recommend they extremely highly, especially if you want to get a become for what lifestyle is instance 800 years back.”
Pursuing the inquiries posed by Beth, Suzanne and you can Sandy specifically, I begin evaluating the brand new name off Joanna’s mommy (described hereafter, getting easier source once the ‘Clemence’ not ‘Clementia’) compliment of an affair into the to-be-queen John. After running up of numerous blind alleys, mostly due to trying reconcile the new chronology of 1 towards the almost every other, You will find settled about what observe. I really don’t claim that what i have written are definitive in almost any contour or setting, therefore the truth is that individuals will probably not yes out of their particular title.
(a) The newest illegitimate Joanna, child out of “Clemence,” is actually unquestionably born out of wedlock –– as it is proved from the Honorius III’s decree claiming their unique legitimate inside the April 1226, no matter if instead of prejudice into the king otherwise arena of The united kingdomt (i.age., giving their own no-claim compared to that throne). The fresh new decree, that has been transcribed regarding totally new, unpublished Check in regarding Honorius III (Reg. Vat. 13, fol. 122 ), states inter alia one to “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de soluta,” and therefore, I’m informed, means “King John away from England, whenever unmarried , fathered you by an unmarried lady.”
This action proved to be a great deal more state-of-the-art than I’d features believe you can easily!
This means Joanna might have been produced zero later on than just 1189 when John partnered Isabella of Gloucester. Her mommy, “Clemence” are most likely French or Norman, as research on the patent moves off John’s reign signifies that Joan was brought out-of Normandy to help you England in the December 1203, to set up having marriage to Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (select below). Joanna died from inside the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s genuine daughter Joan, of the Isabella from Angouleme (married to John within the 1200 at years 12!), was given birth to in the Gloucester into 22 July 1210 (understand the Tewkesbury Annals throughout the Moves Show, vol. 36.we, p. 59; the new Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. 36.iv, p. 399; plus the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium to have John’s Reign, pp. 124, 143). This is basically the Joan exactly who subsequently hitched Alexander II off Scotland and she passed away within the 1238, some weeks shortly after Joanna (this could be the cause of a number of the misunderstandings evident involving the several female).
